Crossbows: An Observation

Discussion in 'Crossbows' started by Riva, Jan 29, 2011.

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  1. I have been observing the discussion surrounding allowing crossbows in Wisconsin, as some advocate, during those seasons where other archery equipment is permitted. I do not happen to be a resident of your great State but, I have recently participated, along with a few others, in the process to get crossbows approved throughout the state of Michigan. Now, being on the outside looking in, shouldn't necessarily discount my opinions because, Lord knows, some rancid types from Wisconsin certainly chirped with their two cents worth during our crossbow expansion discourse here in Michigan.

    It's amazing to hear the same, old, tired rhetoric coming from those opposed to crossbow expansion. It is precisely the same drivel that we heard in Michigan, in Pennsylvania, in Oklahoma, in Texas, in New Jersey and throughout the country, specifically: "it's not a bow", "it has a trigger"; "hunting is supposed to be difficult", "it will decimate the herd" "Fred Bear would roll over in his grave." , etc, etc. Let me condense all their objections for you into one sentence: "We don't want you shooting our deer, in our woods, during our season!" Sometimes the truth hurts.

    And, here's one that I hear coming out of your corner; "We're unique, there's no other State like Wisconsin." No disrespect, but that has about as much scientific validity as saying: "There's no business like show business!"
    Just what is that supposed to mean?

    Frankly, I am amazed that there is even a discussion whatsoever on these matters there in Wisconsin. I recently read a quote from one of the top officials from the Wisconsin DNR stating to the effect that the crossbow is a "social issue" and that hunting with crossbows will not have a negative impact on the deer herd. Hello! Ding DING DING!

    Here is Michigan, we have a law on the books (yes, a law) by the name of "Proposal G". It was enacted by the MI legislature in the 1990's. Perhaps Wisconsin has a similar provision. "Proposal G" is a profound instrument in how policy is crafted surrounding the management of our natural resources. It is a two-fold mandate: (1) that decision makers are required to use principles of sound scientific management in making policy and, (2) that we must maximize (citizen) opportunity to the fullest degree so long as there is no negative impact upon the resource.

    In other words, "science" is the one and only criteria that can be used in creating policy. "Social and political" issues, such as what has been fervently inserted in to the crossbow dialog, are prohibited from being even remotely part of the decision making process. Secondly, "if" it is determined there is no negative impact on the resource (based on science) then the state is REQUIRED BY LAW, to make the opportunity available to any and all to the fullest degree possible.

    Let's circle back for a moment...Your own leadership within the WI DNR has stated that crossbows are "a social issue" and, that the use of crossbows will not have a negative effect upon the resource. Hello! DING DING DING!

    What we accomplished in Michigan can certainly be accomplished in Wisconsin however; it requires a new way of thinking on these matters. In fact, it is a paradigm shift, a sea change in the way of thinking about this issue. Instead of focusing on the limiting and negative concept of “exclusion” the focus should be on promoting and embracing the positive concept of “inclusion”. Two terms that are the direct by-product of the concept of “inclusion” are the words “Opportunity” and “Choice”. The former is necessary for the latter to be a possibility. “Opportunity” and “Choice” are the keys to developing a rational policy that can offer a substantial number of benefits over the current status quo of “Exclusion”. Think about it.

    Again, there will some who come forward to oppose this concept with fervent and emotional zeal. They will make statements like: “it isn’t a bow”, “archery was meant to be hard”, “that it will decimate the herd” or, “it violates our cherished traditions” and things like that. Consideration of an issue of this importance needs to be based on fact, not fiction. I suggest that you encourage your decision makers look past the rhetoric and the hyperbole. With each retort, push your decision makers to evaluate its validity with these three simple interrogatories:

    • Is the objection based on managing the resource purely on science?
    • Does it maximize hunter opportunity?
    • Does it allow you to be prudent stewards both fiscally and financially?

    I will leave you with one final thought. Perhaps the most common concern that is voiced by some surrounding full inclusion of the crossbow, and not necessarily those opposed to the crossbow, is that this will somehow result in the current archery season to be shortened. I can say categorically and with a 100% level of accuracy that, in those states that have enacted full inclusion, not one, has shortened its archery season by so much as one day. Not one! In fact, in Ohio, Georgia and Wyoming have expanded their respective archery season by as much as 45 days!

    Good luck to all.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2011
  2. Your observation is right on! It is Greed, on the part of certain 'Bowhunting" organizations, who don't like change. Their way or the highway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:wink:

  3. couldn't agree with you more.

    As I stated in a different thread on this site-not only should we have a choice, but it would allow opportunities for kids, women and others that may not be able to use a vertical bow.
    The Dnr and state agencies keep talking about how we can get more and more people involved, this is a great-proven track record-method!!

    Not only that-but it is also currently making disabled people ( I am one of them) go to their doctor and get testing done to say they are disabled.
    My insurance doesn't cover this and I had to pay out over $500 of my own money to get these tests done.
    It take the doctor time and time is money in a doctors office.

    I don't know about other disabled people out there, but just being disabled is hard enough. we face day to day things that many of you can't imagine. People look at you funny, sometimes our disabilities can be embarrassing in public, our vehicles cost a lot more because of the need adaptions for chairs and ramps.

    Now because a few bow hunters feel "entitlement" to the woods that are for everyone that pays taxes should have to do what they say???

    Not only is that selfish, but it really shows what they are all about.
    I can go to the counter of a gas station during gun season and buy unlimited tags for $2 each.
    500,000 gun hunters a year cant kill off all of our deer, what makes anyone think some extra crossbow hunters will?

    I think the real reason they don't want crossbows is because many of their members would convert.

    The issue is choice and it is "Choice" that we should all have.
  4. I can not agree ! First allow me to express, Because of shouldrer and back surgeries, I am now a crossbow user. So I can speak for both sides of the issue! Bowhunting came about not as a management tool as some of you believe, It came about as a challenge, Guns became too easy for the better woodsman, So Bowhunting was taken up, Its The Challenge !!!! So all this talk about Bowhunting not making a difference in management and we can have more people and more choices is not an issue in the first place---The challenge to archery is getting anumal into range, usually 35 yards and less, Then getting string drawn back with out getting noticed, Then making the shot on a live animal. We chose the difficult way as a challenge. There is not as much challenge with a cross bow. I know, i am using one---No need to draw back at the right moment, I can accurately shoot with enough downrange energy out to 80 yards, No need to worry about stiff cold muscles either. I compare my crossbow to shooting a twenty gauge shotgun with slug. Sorry, The challenge is not the same, But I do enjoy it more than sitting home watching Oprah and Cupcake wars, What about Pope and Young Records ?????????? seperate category ????? O.K. I am not politically Correct, Just Honest ! Hatfield Hunter
  5. Just because you hunt with a xbow doesnt mean killing a deer is a guaranteed kill..I dont shoot a xbow i shoot a hoyt.I shoot up to 60 yards and i like shooting my bow..As far as i'm concerned if it gets more people out into the woods to enjoy what mother nature has to offer then so be it..Who are we to judge. Not every 12 year old kid or female or 60year old can pull the required weight back on a bow..So they should be banned from enjoying the sport...I think not..Grow up we dont own the sport and change is inevitable.With all the crap goin on over the 2nd amendment right now we need every sportsman we can get..No matter what they choose to shoot...gun,bow or xbow..
  6. Should we make everything easy and simple ? What about working toward a goal ???? exercising muscles ! practicing to make you more efficient ! We are in a period of everyone is an equal----We are creating a society of groupies----Just ask corporate america----In our schools ans extracurricular activities we no longer keep score, because evryone is great---We do no want to hurt anybodies feelings----You know what, In school, I wanted to become an NFL pro Football player---I had to come to terms with my physical assets after awhile---So I took up another sport and hobby----I did not sit and cry or beg to be an equal----I am entiltled to my opinion ! Typical Liberal Politically correct relpy----Grow Up !!!!!!! Or if you cant do the sport--Change it !!!! Remember, Michael Jordan did not make the team his first try---did he pout and whine----He worked harder !!!!
  7. lol..Your comparing apples to oranges..and..The only people pouting and whining are those trying to stop it from going thru..Which it will in time.
  8. HMMMMM lets see bow weight minimum in Wi is 35 pounds I believe now 80 % let off 7 pounds hold back weight !!!! Wow I will admit this----Should there be someone who wishes to bow hunt and absolutely can not, and can not after practice and exercie--use this bow at this weight , THEY SHOULD be able to use a crossbow !!!!!
  9. Hatfield,
    Using your train of thought, cars with power steering shouldn't have been allowed because other vehicles at the time didn't have them. Power Steering is taboo and it eats up the roads! That's about as ridiculous
    as your silly statements.
    The whole point of this is: That everybody should be included. Bowhunters themselves did not provide for everything there is in the woods. There were and still are, many organizations that helped shape the outdoors as we see it today.
    Our tax dollars are pooled together to make things work. Why do you think that someone should be able to tell someone else what they can or can't do?
    as for being liberal? The stomping of the feet and claiming "mine, mine, mine! Is about as liberal as you can get!! The WBA is a very liberal group. Very close to Stalin or Hitler-"We support everything--As long as we get to control it or exclude it!" -
    At a time when we should work together, WBA is doing everything they can to separate hunters. I think they are actually afraid of their vertical bowhunters will switch over to crossbows and not be members anymore.

    In other states DNR studies, it has shown that many people come into the sport of hunting using crossbows. at about the age of 23 or so, they switch to vertical bows. Then when they get in their late 30's and early 40's, they go back to crossbows.

    Not everybody lives near an archery range to practice a religiously. The closest range for me is 24 miles away. We don't all live in the country where we can practice in our yards. So a crossbow allows us to shoot at a range, become comfortable with our weapon of "CHOICE" and then be able to put it away.
    Why does something have to be difficult in order for it to be "OK'd". That is your choice to make hunting harder on yourself. You love that challenge and that is ok, it's great!
    Does a crossbow hunter still not have to worry about getting in close enough for a shot? worry about wind and scent control?
    Your claims are not only selfish, but silly.
    a Vertical hunter can get off a few shots by reloading his bow easily where a crossbow hunter has to go through a series of actions. So in that respect, the vertical archer has an advantage where a crossbow, because of the noise and the "One Shot", is at a disadvantage.
    How about if vertical archers are only allowed one arrow in their quiver? Oh no!!

    So please, I understand you don't like crossbows. That is your right to like or not like anything, but stop telling others what they should or shouldn't allow.

  10. You sound just like Rancid Crabtree. :biggrin: Are you? Let it go crossbows are not evil but just another tool to use during bow season. With your reasoning we would still be in the Cave era.
  11. O.K.---O.K. I have learned my lesson----Folks on this forum do not wish to hear anybody,s views ! unless of course it mirrors their own---I assumed someone with intelligence would enjoy hearing from someone who has bow hunted since 1967, One of the first in my area of state at the time---Also someone who has hunted with bows and now has to use a crossbow----Gee, experience ! This from someone who has used both and has experience with both-----Amazing---But NO ! anothers thoughts are not valid in this forum ! Appreciating someones views used to be the American way, wether it was your beliefs or not---Especially someone with knowledge and experience---Not anymore----Not in this liberal world, -----If you go back and read my first post, Their was not anything written about anybody elses opinions---just offering my experiences and thoughts----You people deserve each other, close your minds and be P.C. I don,t need this !
  12. Steve

    Steve Staff Member

    Yeap crossbows are just another tool, and more importantly a tool that will help us get more youth into the sport and keep more of the elderly in the sport.
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